Seed Oils, Food Dyes, and Food Allergies: What Actually Matters with Molly Kimball, RD

It feels like everywhere you turn, something else is being labeled as dangerous. Seed oils. Food dyes. Processed ingredients. But for families already navigating food allergies, layering in more restrictions can quickly become overwhelming — and not always for good reason.

In this episode, Dr. Alice Hoyt sits down with Molly Kimball, registered dietitian and founder of Eat Fit, to sort through what the science actually says. They break down what seed oils really are, why not all of them deserve the same bad reputation, where synthetic food dyes are hiding in your food (and your medicine cabinet), and how to know when food restriction is helpful versus harmful.

Resources mentioned:

• Chemical Cuisine by CSPI — a free guide to food additives, color-coded by safety
• Molly's podcast: Fueled (episode on synthetic food dyes featuring food scientist Thomas Galligan)
• Eat Fit — Ochsner's nonprofit nutrition initiative across Louisiana restaurants, schools, and markets
• Watkins natural food dyes

About Molly Kimball: Molly Kimball, RD, CSSD is a lifestyle dietitian and board-certified specialist in sports dietetics. She founded Eat Fit through Ochsner Health and has spent over two decades helping thousands of clients find evidence-based, personalized nutrition approaches. She also hosts the podcast Fueled and contributes regularly to local TV and print media in New Orleans.

Resources

📖 Navigating Food Allergies: A Parent’s Guide to Care, Coverage, and Confidence by Dr. Alice Hoyt - order from Amazon and more 

For Parents ➡️ Office Hours for Parents 

For Providers ➡️ Food Allergy Pediatric Hub

For Schools ➡️ Code Ana

For Potential Patients ➡️ Hoyt Institute of Food Allergy

🔎 Find an Allergist
AAAAI Allergist Finder
ACAAI Allergist Finder
OIT Allergist Finder

This podcast is the official podcast of the Hoyt Institute of Food Allergy. Information on, within, and associated with this site and Food Allergy and Your Kiddo is for educational purposes only and is not medical advice.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Molly Kimball

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Hello, and welcome to Food Allergy and Your Kiddo. I'm your host, Dr. Alice Hoyt. And maybe it's just me. I don't think it is just me, based on my conversations with parents, with my friends, but kind of feels like everywhere you turn, there's new concern about something in our food: seed oils, food dyes, processed ingredients, and what really is clean eating, right? And so for families who are already managing food allergies, it can be really hard to sort through what actually matters and what might just be adding unnecessary stress. And so here to help us sort of break all of this down is our amazing guest today. Her name is Molly Kimball. She is a registered dietitian with just such incredible passion for helping people live their strongest, healthiest lives. She's the founder of EatFit, which if you live in South Louisiana, then you know EatFit is just this amazing nonprofit initiative from Oxner Health. It works with local restaurants, markets, schools, corner stores to help just develop and identify nutritious items on the menu. And when I first met Molly, uh my team and I really kind of like asked, you know, how, how, how deep do y'all go on kind of like vetting? And this is this is the real deal. So if you see, um, if you see the the Oxner EatFit on a menu, you know that that has really met some some really good standards. So that's a a little bit of a deep dive in in into EatFit, but I just if if you're in South Louisiana or anywhere in Louisiana, because it is all across our state, and you see that, you know it's good. And you know that it's because of this lady right here, Molly. Um, she's a lifestyle dietitian, board-certified specialist in sports dietetics by the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. And she's worked with thousands of clients. And she also leads other dietitians in helping patients find evidence-based nutritional approaches to life that that work for each of those patients. So, really personalized evidence-based approaches. So, Molly, I'm super excited to have you on the show today. Thanks so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Oh my gosh, I'm thrilled. Uh talking with you is, you know, I I'm so excited about your expertise and what you bring as, you know, you have just this multidimensional level of expertise and then also to have that nutrition expertise. So talking with you is just so much fun. So I'm so thrilled to be here on the podcast with you.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

It is it is super fun. My team and I've been very excited about about this episode. Even though, like so on this episode, we are going to talk about kids with food allergies, but also if you're a mom, you're a dad, you're a grandparent, then you know that it's it can be hard for you to make healthy nutrition choices for yourself, especially when you're already having to have your child, at least one of your children, avoid a particular food group. And so we're really going to get in the weeds here with all this stuff about seed oils. What does it really mean about dyes and processed foods? And um, a pet of peeve of mine is when a clinician will tell a patient, oh, well, you need to avoid sugar. Like, what does that even mean, right? Um, so Molly, to take a step back, um I like to ask all of our guests sort of how they got started in their field and what drives their passion. So I'd love to ask you, I mean, you've been doing this for so long and you've helped so many patients, and you've taught other dietitians and you've led the way to really implore health systems like Oxner to focus in on nutrition and healthy lifestyle. So, where did all of this come from?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, so um thank you for all that and the kind words for sure. Um, so you know, growing up, nutrition was something that I always had as an interest. And it was something that I always, it was what I I was, it was how I, my free time and my the things that I read and what I did as just my hobby, I wanted to educate myself on nutrition and performance fueling and sports nutrition. And I didn't even realize at the time that it could be a career. It was something that's just a passion of mine. And so when I went to um LSU, I wasn't majoring. What's what's yeah, good tigers? I um and I realized that nutrition was actually something that you could have a career in. I immediately changed my major and I was like, this is the coolest thing. And so I graduated from LSU, um, did my internship in New Orleans. Um, you do your internship and then you sit for your boards basically, and then you are a dietitian. And from there, our fitness center, Osher Fitness Center, right as I was finishing, they were looking to hire for the first time a full-time dietitian on staff. And I was fresh out of my internship. You know, I always had had, you know, somebody to ask those questions to. And so being hired as the expert straight out of the internship definitely catapulted. You know, you immediately have to, there's no one else to ask. It's you. And so as you're learning all these things for the first time and finding it out, my answer to people all the time would be, let me get back with you. And then and then that becomes your knowledge. And it's so much more. You guys have to think of it now too, with how easy things are with, you know, a quick Google or AI or there's all these other references. But when you're actually having to dig through it and sort through it, it sticks. So um started our nutrition program at the Asher Fitness Center in 1999 and started working with clients one-on-one in that space. And from there, you know, several different things evolved. Eat Fit was something that evolved out of seeing clients when they're out living their life and they aren't meal prepping. They're not going to the grocery store and making all these, you know, the this lunch or this dinner because they're gonna go out and meet their friends that fill in the blank place. It was a gap that we saw we could really help support people in these restaurant spaces. And actually, Eat Fit was my husband's idea. So we would be out at restaurants and you know, I've written for the newspaper for years and done a TV segment on our ABC affiliate, WGNO, for years, and have a podcast actually. Um, and actually, I'm not sure as this airs when yours will air. But for your listeners, if you want to hear a deep dive with Dr. Hoyt, we also have that on the podcast. So over the years, people would see or hear these different spaces, and they started to feel as I'm sure your patients are with you, or even people that you don't know, they would feel like they knew me. And so Brad and I would be at restaurants and strangers would come up and say, Okay, I have high blood pressure. And they would pull up a chair and they'd be like, I have high blood pressure. What should I eat here? Or they would be like judgment, and sometimes they had boundaries, like they would be like, Oh, I'm sorry to bother you. Other times they were just like in for our dinner, you know? And then, or they would be judging. You're like captive. And so, or they would be judgmental of like, there's nothing to eat healthy here. Well, like, what are you doing here? You're a dietitian. I'm like, No, there is, and you know, we'd educate. So my husband was like, You you should work with restaurants and put something on the menu to help guide people. And so I was really fortunate that Oshner was behind that and Oshner was in support of it. And so we started the the nonprofit in that space, and everything that we do has kind of been that type of organic approach, and not everything sticks. You know, you try some things, you're like, Yeah, that didn't really like hit like we thought it would, and then other things just really take hold. And so it's just been so rewarding to have these areas that we've been that you see so much personal benefit and you get these stories from people of how much it's helped them. And to to see that grow and to see the impact has just been really cool.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

I mean, and and I will say, I will brag on you because I, you know, I grew up in the South. I know Oxner, I've known Oxner for a long time. Um, trained there, my husband works there. They would not um, they they would not go all in on a concept unless it was the right concept and it was led by the right person. And so many, many hats off to you for for doing it and leading it. And also, how sweet of you to give credit to your husband, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

I bet he loves that. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

He says eat fit is his best idea ever and his worst idea ever because it also, you know, it takes over.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I love it. Okay,

What Seed Oils Are

SPEAKER_03 8:54

so let's dive in to the seed oil situation, and we're gonna go like very sort of like basic here because I think there's a lot of just misinformation uh about or non-information, like what what is a seed oil and why are they bad? Question mark. Are they bad, right? So I want to really start from like a ground level. Like, what is it and what's the deal with it?

SPEAKER_00 9:23

So I think, you know, for your listeners, the the reason Dr. Hoyt and I were talking about let's talk about this is especially for patients of Dr. Hoyt's, there's already in many cases, there's gonna be at least some restrictions, if not many restrictions nutritionally. And so when we're living with things that we we have to really watch and we have to maybe really be stringent on or completely avoid, we're already living in that space. And so when we layer in unnecessarily other restrictions, gosh, that can become so burdensome. And so looking at the things that are sort of these hot button issues that are bad, that then we they're they're almost vilifying certain foods. And then we think, so for for maybe one of Dr. Hoyt's patients, it has to avoid, let's just say, to make it simple, dairy. Or maybe it's dairy and soy. But then now, wait, wait a second. Do I, should I, do I need to avoid everything with seed oils in it? Because now we're just really complicating things. So um, as we're talking, and that's sort of the overarching, like, why we want to talk about this. And with seed oils, seed oils just in a very what they are, they're actually oils extracted from the seeds of plants. And so canola is a seed oil, corn oil, soybean oil, cotton seed oil, safflower oils, those are seed oils. And so the seed is actually um it's it's like pressed or ground, and the the oils are or are chemically treated, and the oils are obtained from these seeds. Unlike something like olives or avocado oil, where it's pressed from the flesh of that of that um fruit, basically. And so um seed oils are extracted from the seeds rather than from the flesh. And the ones that we named are sort of the main ones. I would say corn and soybean oil are probably the most common. Um, and I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist, but I do want to point out that corn and soy are subsidized by our government. And so, corn oil and soybean oil, they're very cheap. And they're um for that reason, they have really found their way into our food supply because they're cheap for food makers to use. And so, um, but also canola and all of these oils are in there. And so one of the things to know about the seed oils is um they're uh some of the so I'll start stop there. That's what seed oils are. Do we want to move on to like what the qu the concerns are?

SPEAKER_03 11:59

I do, I do. And what uh we'll we'll get to more can conspiracy, but conspiracies can be true, right? Some conspiracies are true. And you bring up a really good point, and we'll talk a little bit later about the the food guide pyramid, which is no longer like the different iterations. And I mean, I remember back in the day it was six to eleven servings of grains per day. Like, we used to always say six to eleven servings of grains.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Right. We're like, most people don't need that. We exceed we want to turn it upside down, which is almost what the the current one is. So when we're looking at seed oils, there's there's several things here that aren't good. One, there's so well, I'll I'll start by saying this. Do I think I'm gonna get to the the big picture here? Do I think that we all need to avoid to avoid seed oils? I don't. I think there's certain seed oils that if we were gonna have them, it's not the end of the world. I think that um a lot of times when we look at the foods that are high in seed oils, those foods themselves are not nutritious. So, what I like to give the example of is if you have a Dorito and you take that seed oil out of the Dorito and you replace it with avocado or olive oil, you still have a Dorito. It's still not a healthy food. And so a lot of times the seed oils are in the foods themselves that are not healthy, they're not wholesome. But if you were going to use a little drizzle of canola oil on something at home and that's what you had, it's it's that that is not to me um a deal breaker. But when we look at what are some of the concerns about seed oils, um the biggest, the biggest is really the omega-3 content, omega-6 content. And so omega-6s um are pro-inflammatory. Omega-3s, if we want to keep it super simple, omega-3s, which are what's in fish oil, um, those are you're talking about fats.

unknown 13:49

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Good fats,

Fats 101 And Why We Need Them

SPEAKER_03 13:50

bad fats, in between fats. Can you, before we go into that, can you do just like a breakdown of the types of fats and that not all like not all fats are created equal, right? And some are good, some are less good. Could you talk a little bit about that and then dive into this?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah. So um when we look at fats, especially if we look at plant-based fats, you know, we uh with our eat-fit nutritional criteria, for example, we don't really even, we don't have a limit on plant-based fats. Now, we have a limit on calories, so that kind of naturally kind of keeps your fat content in check. So something's not just, you know, over the top in that. But when we look at um the types of fats, plant-based fats, um, which are often going to be monounsaturated fats, and monounsaturated fats are what you're gonna get largely in something like olive oil, also um avocado oil, but also things like canola oil is high, very high, and monounsaturated fat. So canola oil is a seed oil, but if you look at the makeup of it, it's got that same, almost the same monounsaturated, strong monounsaturated profile that olive oil does. Um, and then you have your polyunsaturated fats, which is your fish and things like that. And then you have your saturated, which is your um butters and creams and things like that. And so when we look at fats, fats in general, we need them. We've got to have them. They're essential for hormone production, they're essential for our skin, healthy skin, hair, um, keeping us feeling fuller, longer. The fats are absolutely essential. And when we look at the omega-3s, there's a lot of benefits. Mood benefits potentially, anti-inflammatory benefits of omega-3s. Those omega-6s, for years, I mean, back when I was in school, like it was it was uh you would you want to try to keep your balance of omega-3s and sixes sort of in line because the more those omega-6s start to creep up, the more pro-inflammatory they are. And so what's interesting is compared to a hundred years.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

And by pro-inflammatory, do you mean like cardiac, like heart attack?

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Um think about like uh when we have inflammation, joint joint inflammation. So if you think about like joint pain or inflammation, um you could a lot of times I think about it from a someone may feel it that way. Um pro-inflammatory, it could be something that you're feeling, but it can also be on that cellular level, that vascular level. So yeah, when we're looking at what's inflammatory, the correlation to that is also things that are gonna raise our risk for heart disease. It's gonna raise our risk for um diabetes, it's it's challenging the integrity of our vessel lining. So anything that we're looking at inflammation, it can be something that we're feeling, we're feeling that inflammation. And on that, that really um you're not gonna feel that inflammation inside of your vessel walls, but it's it's still gonna be there. And so it can affect our cells, our tissues, it can affect how we feel um throughout our body. Yeah. Yeah. And so so it can affect how we feel, but it can also affect our long-term cardiovascular risk, long-term health risk. So if we look at like inflammation as inflammation is really at the root of all of many of the um the woes that we feel. And so if we can, if we can dampen and control that inflammation, we're really able to help ourselves feel better, think better, live better, and feel our best. That inflammation is gonna be kind of that silent thing that's that's um in some cases we feel it, in some cases we don't, but it's what's gonna increase our risk.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Gotcha. Yeah, inflammation is a word that sometimes I think is kind of like kind of like a wastebasket term, like asthma. Like asthma can be so many different, have so many different characteristics. Um, and inflammation can have so many different characteristics. I love that you're describing it and how it can how certain foods absolutely directly impact how we feel. And to your point earlier, that having a little bit of something that you're cooking at home is one thing, but if we're very regularly eating more kind of like boatloads of certain pro-inflammatory foods, we're gonna go down a bad path.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Also with our gut biome, which is on the equation, we've got to say sugar, ultra-processed foods, white refined processed carbohydrates, those are also pro-inflammatory. But on the conversation on these seed oils, what's interesting is the concentration of omega 6 omega-6 fatty acids in our fat tissues. So when we're looking at the what's actually stored in our body, the increase that we're looking at, I'm looking at my notes here, has increased by over 100%. So it's more than doubled, an estimated 136% increase in the omega-6 fats in our in our fat tissues. That also corresponds with an increase, about 15 times increase that we're having of omega-6 fatty acids. And part of I I interviewed um a woman who's just an incredible um wealth of knowledge in this space. And and it was eye-opening because what what really brought it to me was there's seed oil haters,

Omega Balance And Heat Damage

SPEAKER_00 19:13

and then there's people who say there's nothing wrong with seed oils. And then I was getting all these press, like you know, media pitches of people, you know, seed oils are killing us. And I'm like, the story's got to be somewhere in the middle here. And so finding someone who could actually speak to these things and bring this research to us, what I what I thought was also super interesting is that once we had the industrial revolution, so a little over 100 years ago, and we started to be able to produce foods in a larger scale way than we ever had before, that's when that large-scale oil extraction started to be possible. So going back to that corn and soy, now we're able to produce those in high volumes, and food makers are able to get them cheaply and put them into foods. So the things like seed oils, soybean oil, corn oil really exponentially increased in our diets in the United States about a hundred years ago and have only continued to increase as foods have become more and more processed. And so the fact that actually what's showing up in our tissues is even more than double of that. So that's the issue.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

And in your notes, when it showed, what was that comparison from? Because you said it's I'll send it to you.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

I'll send you all the I'll send you it so you can have it. Yeah. And so I'm looking at um the the concentration of omega-6s in our fat tissues over the past 50 years has more than doubled, about 136% increase. Yeah. And so um, but one thing that I want to really point out is when we look at the omega-6 concentration, like the omega-6 to omega-3s in these oils, something like um sunflower oil is about 91 to 1, omega-6 to omega-3. Safflower oil is 125 to 1. That means that's that's the ratio of omega-6s to threes. Canola oil, though, is only two to one. So that means canola oil actually has a really low concentration of omega-6s. So to me, it's a little bit of a shame that it gets kind of lumped into those seed oils. Yeah. Because that omega-6 is really, it's not, I mean, it's not one to one, but two to one is still pretty low. Um, whereas corn oil is 50 to 1. So when we look at putting corn oil and canola oil in that same bucket, to me, there's that kind of teasing it out. The last thing I'm gonna say about canola oil, and I'm not a canola oil advocate by any means, but it is a neutral oil that you can use at high temps. And so when someone is cooking at high temps at home, if they were going to use oil, and we would say, well, use uh you can't bring something like avocado um olive oil that high. You could bring avocado oil, but it's gonna have maybe a little bit more of a a stronger flavor. Canola oil is super neutral. So if you're cooking at a high temp, You need an oil that's not going to reach that smoke point. And so canola oil is one that you can cook at a high temp and it is safe. It's and it's going to be neutral. So I would say if someone's using that at home and you're going to use canola oil, that can be a good option. The problem, the last thing on the um seed oils is that part of the issue is when they're heated and reheated multiple times. That's when the um carcinogenic compounds are formed. And so in restaurants, when they're using these seed oils or food makers, if they're firing up that kettle of that seed oil, let's say it's corn oil, they're probably not going to fry those chips in a huge hundreds of gallons of corn oil one time and then discard all that corn oil and start over again. They're bringing it down and then heating it back up and heating it back up, heating it back up. Same with the restaurants. And so that's part of the thing. So going back to that, if you're using that canola oil one time at home for high temp cooking, it's not the end of the world. But when you came to the case, what's an example of a high temp cooking? What's that?

SPEAKER_03 23:02

What's an example of a high temp cooking?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Um we're gonna um saute something like pan sear, you're gonna bring that like uh even frying, like if you're gonna like so drop something in oil, and frying something without batter actually um doesn't really um change the calorie composition. So if you're doing something like um when we look at Popeyes, naked tenders, like the naked blackened tenders, they're not battered and fried. The nutritionals on them is the same as grilled skinless chicken breast. And so um if you're they put in the fryer? Yeah. Because when it's not battered, it doesn't hold that extra oil. And so um, yeah, in fact, when Popeyes first came out with their naked tenders and we were looking at the nutrition facts, I was like, there's no way these fried, unbattered tenders are the same as their grilled skinless chicken breasts. I thought they were lying. We actually, um, one of the media outlets that I work for, we actually paid to have them lab tested because we doubted it so much. And when it and I was convinced, I was like, this is like breaking news. And then it came back and I was like, this is exactly the same. They're right. And because when it's fried, it doesn't um at a high temp, it's not penetrating that muscle, that meat. So you're not actually having it, you're not increasing the the any of the numbers on that nutritionally. So going back to that, if someone is gonna be um, you know, using like if you're so when we say fry, we even mean sauteing at a high temp. You've got that oil, you know, an inch or two of oil covering your skillet, and you're putting that fish in there, you're putting the shrimp in there, whatever it is. When you've got it going to that high temp, more than just a drizzle or more than just cooking on low, that you've got something sauteing lightly and some olive oil, once you start to take it to that next um higher temp of that medium to high and especially high heat, we need to use an oil that can withstand it. Um, again, otherwise, your very healthy oil starts to form those bad compounds as well. So avocado oil. Can you tell? What's that?

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Like can you tell like maybe it'll start to so I'll know.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah, it'll start to smoke, and um, and once it's starting to smoke, that's we call that the smoke point, and that's when those compounds start to form. So yeah, using it. And it's gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

You don't want to eat that. It's like when I brown the butter. It goes.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Say it again. Um I'm leaning in to hear you.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

So sorry. It's like um if if it gets to that point, you gotta dump it.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah, it's hard to tell. I mean, because like if we have like a cast iron skillet and you've got that big sear coming, there's some smoke that's happening, but it's not like a big, like if you're taking extra virgin olive oil and you're um gonna be uh frying something in it, you're gonna have like a really smoky situation on there. So something like extra virgin olive oil is best to cook at low heat. Um, if you're doing it at high heat, you're probably gonna see it start to smoke more, and you would want to not use that. So that's where we use something like avocado oil for high heat cooking.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

And what about good old butter?

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Because now there's a lot out about beef tallow and I mean I've always been like a bacon fat kind of person. Yeah. Um, anytime before we have a big meal, like a holiday meal or something, like we just plan on baking a few packs of bacon and like put foil at the bottom so we can save the bacon grease for for cooking.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Um seed oil versus bacon grease. I guess okay, so I guess I shouldn't I shouldn't let it be.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

That's where like things get really heated. And like for me, I don't I don't like the well, let's use bacon grease as an alternative to an otherwise plant-based oil. And I don't love the beef tallow as an alternative to that. So each time that I'm saying, what are we gonna use for high temp cooking? That's why I go to avocado oil. We know that we've

Butter Bacon Fat And The Bigger Picture

SPEAKER_00 27:03

got a good, we've got something good there with that plant-based fat. When we look at the animal fats like beef tallow or like a bacon fat, there's it's mixed. We start to look at it's not quite as clear-cut. And I love those things too. And I would also cook with those things and I love the flavor of those. When we look, though, at like over and over and over in studies, so many of the studies that we look at that are looking at the risk of, let's just say, like cardiovascular disease and types of fats, they're murky because they're not a controlled study with someone in a lab that the only variable is are they getting avocado oil or bacon grease or beef tallow or butter or olive oil? That would be real clear-cut, but it's more like, you know, um, Dr. Hoyt fills out a survey and she eats a lot of pizza. Well, pizza's got saturated fat because of the cheese, or the burgers got saturated fat because of the cheese. So there's a lot of kind of correlational and observational research that has gone into this. But then when you tease, you can it's hard to tease out because a lot of the things that are high in those animal fats that are historically linked to disease and cardiovascular disease, they're also filled with those ultra-processed white refined carbohydrates. You know, it's not just your burger, it's your burger with the bun, it's the french fries, it's the pizza, it's the pasta. So it's hard to tease that out. So that's one where I would say, and I I don't like this answer, but there's like more good research is needed to see what's the deal with bacon grease and beef tallow in these. But in the meantime, if we've got the option of an avocado oil or an olive oil, or what I like to use also is a coconut oil. So if I need something that's gonna be a solid at room temp, if I can use coconut oil in place of butter and baking, I like to make that switch too. And then when I'm using butter, I mean, we we love just really good butter. Um, but if I'm gonna be using it, I've already got it, maybe I'm gonna be using it topically on a piece of like good sourdough bread, then I might use that coconut oil and baking.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

That makes a lot of sense. And so you're getting a lot of diversity there. Right. And you know, what what also comes to mind, two things that come to mind. One is talking about different fats and how different things are guilty by association, and kind of how how I think in part we got into the obesity issue that we're in, is you know, back in the 90s, that whole like low fat, high sugar. That's the part they didn't say was like low fat but high sugar.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Right. Um, and now sort of the pendulum, the second part of whole milk and some of the new newer data coming out that whole milk maybe isn't as bad as we once thought for cardiovascular. Right. I mean, my thought too is that when you're when you're drinking something like just like straight whole milk, you're having more of a whole food, even though it has a heavier fat load or more fat content, like you're also getting that satiety signal of like okay, I agree, this is enough, stop eating. Yeah. As opposed to I find with some of the lower fat foods that are to get more flavor, they have more sugar, that you know, I don't really get that signal as much. So I can just like chow down.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

And the same becomes also these uh these heated debates about like whole milk, and I feel the same way about whole milk. I'm I'm happy to have that back in schools. And again, when you look at the obesity concerns, did anybody get there in that space that they are who's struggling in those spaces by drinking whole milk? Was that really the culprit that got them there? You know, I've never met anybody that said, I could tell you what my problem was, I drank too much whole milk. No one, you know? I mean, it's the packaged foods, the ultra-processed foods, the the chips, the cookies, the sweets, the the access to those foods. I've never had a single person who attributed their weight woes to whole milk, you know, or really, you know, any anything that's like that, that's a real good quality whole food. Um sometimes I think going to something like um the conversation of what are we cooking in? Is it beef tallow? Is it butter? Is it avocado oil, those singular ingredients become really inflamed and polarizing conversations. And they also unfortunately have become super political. But if the other things that we're putting them in are real fresh, full foods, if someone is cooking, you know, beautiful fillets of like local fish and they're flash frying it in their skillet and they're gonna use some beef tallow or they're gonna use avocado oil or they're using a little bit of butter to kind of you know put over the top, I'm just happy they're having that big fillet of fish. And then uh that source of fats with it. Does it matter? Yeah, but in the big picture, if we're doing these things and we're cooking more at home, we're still gonna probably be way better than the other stuff that we're getting. Right. And fast food and those packaged foods.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

Right. And I was watching, um, I was watching on, I I watched a show Lunch One on YouTube, and they also have I think it's NHK, it's this Japanese channel. And I'm just like, I love the different food things. Um, and one of the shows we were watching was like, why, for the most part, there is not significant obesity in Japan. And they looked at, even though they have fast food and things like that, they also have lots of options that are much more um diet diversity, is I guess the best way I can say it, where you can still have you have rice, you have chicken, you have vegetables, and that is very easily accessible and still very culturally the norm. Um, whereas here it is so easy to access

What Japan Gets Right About Eating

SPEAKER_03 33:00

highly refined fast food, and especially in places where people don't necessarily have the resources to go to a Whole Foods or even a local supermarket and and select fresh produce. And then even if they do have those resources, does the family have the time to go and do that and prepare all those foods all the time? You know, it's it's right, it's first world problem, but Japan, first world, right? And they they're they're you know what's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Um one of my best friends lived in Japan for years, and so we got to visit her and um and and experience the culture. And one of the things that struck me was they don't eat while they're in motion. So there's no eating while they're in a car or eating while they're walking or mindless. Everything, if they're eating, they would be, even if it was at like a window that they were getting something made here, there was tables and they would stand up and they would stop and stand and eat whatever it was they were having and then be on their way. Whereas so much of what we do, we're eating while we're doing these other things. We've also taken their green tea, and what does our matcha green tea at a coffee shop look like with all the sugar and stuff like that, where they have these very pure things. And then they're moving everywhere. Whereas we're behind the wheel of a car at our desk or on our sofa, you know, where they're walking and there's so much movement, um, you know, physical movement that's non-purposeful, like it's not for the purpose of back of exercising, but it's still movement that they're doing. And so yeah, there's so many um lifestyle differences that I think contribute to the differences there. You know, we're we we have so many conveniences that are at our fingertips that it it works against us.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

Mm-hmm. And I wanna I want to kind of bring this back to food allergy and how b before we went live um recording, you and I were talking about how it can be really challenging if a family is already avoiding some foods because their child has an anaphylactic food allergy. And then they hear about dyes and seed oils and these things. And the what what I think a lot about is a family's quality of life. And I'm always thinking I'm trying to keep a child safe, but I'm also trying to have that child and that entire family have the best possible quality of life. And when we start avoiding multiple foods, multiple food groups, that can be incredibly challenging. So I

Food Dyes And Where They Hide

SPEAKER_03 35:41

want to I want to talk about dyes in a minute. Um, actually, let's let's talk about dyes now. And then I want to come back to this the quality of life of what you see in your practice when people overly restrict for themselves, for their kids. But I want to tackle the dyes. How did all these dyes get into our our our supply chain to start with? I mean, from what I've read, it's a lot of um grass generally recognized as safe, where foods just get sort of labeled as as this, whereas a grass recognition was really initially uh developed for things like eggs, so that things like eggs that are like basic staple foods and have been for centuries.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

It's a good question about how they yeah, how did they get here in the first place?

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Like how I don't know why are they in our supplies? Why are they in our food supply?

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Yeah, and I don't know how did they how do they become so ubiquitous? What I will say is they serve no purpose nutritionally, zero purpose. They are purely for visual effect marketing, making that food look uh exciting or appealing to someone. Um, you know, if you look at um cereal makers and you look at cereals that are made for the United States and cereals that are made for other countries, that same cereal is a more muted colors when it's for the other countries than to the United States, whereas these bright vivid colors. And so um there's because a lot of the dyes are not permitted in those countries. Right, right. And the United States really lags far behind this. And um there is an organization called Nutrition uh Center for Science and the Public Interest, and Center for Science and the Public Interest publishes Nutrition Action magazine, but they have an amazing um, I think it'd be a great resource for for your patients. It's called Chemical Cuisine, and it's a free resource, and you can just it's and it goes through all of the different food additives and it has them marked as like green, yellow, red, and it tells you this the the implications of it. And so um there's a food scientist who works for them, Thomas Gallaghan, and he joined me for a podcast on synthetic food dyes, and I was over the moon because I've been a fan of CSPI, Center for Science and Public Interests, literally since I was in college, and I was like, you know, fanning out about them. And so um that is a really good resource to look at what's to deal with these food dyes, and and you know, and it'll show what's linked to what and what has the science behind it is causing these different issues.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

Um I'm gonna get those links and we're gonna put those links in our show notes, including the podcast, your podcast fueled. Um, we're gonna put that in our show notes too.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

The the chemical cuisine by them is just a it's a um a wealth of information there, and it's sort of it stays current. And so you can see also if there's something that you don't know what this is in your food, you're like looking at the ingredients, like, huh, I don't even recognize this. Pull it up. And and odds are they've got it in there and they'll tell you like what it is, what it's about. So um with the food dyes, red number 40 is like the most widely used that we what we have. But there's red 40, there's yellow five, there's yellow six, there's blue two. Um, and and these are just they're all through our foods. They're also in things that you wouldn't expect. Um, things like medication. So Advil, Aleaf, Tylenol, um, peptobismol. It's not naturally that color, you know. Um, and so, but sometimes it's in things that are really surprising. Dr. Hoyt, you'll find it in white foods. It's in things like um certain mayonnaise have it, um, different sauces, things like breads or even bagels can have it. And it blows my mind. There's products that you would not even think you needed to look, but it has them in there. And so um it was only in January of last year, January of 2025, that red number three was actually banned. Um it's linked to cancer. And but that had been, gosh, back in the 90s that some of the studies had come out about this. And it was not until 2025 that it was banned from the food supply here in the United States. So we really lag behind other countries and we lag behind research in there. So I would say on food dyes, when we can, let's do our best to limit these because why not? They're not serving any value for us. And again, probably even more than the seed oils. Foods that often have food dyes in it, they're not giving us the nutritional value. And a lot of times it is the candies or the sugar cereals. Again, sometimes it's sneaking into things like salad dressings and stuff like that. But when we can avoid it, there's so many options. We used to not have a lot of options. You know, if you were wanting to avoid synthetic food dyes, you know, you would have to like make your own from like beet extract or spirulina or red cabbage would make a blue, you know. And so there was, we were having to be real creative when we wanted to dye Easter eggs naturally or something. But now there's all these different brands that make just like you would have your normal food dyes, that when you're making your icing, you're gonna use your a few drops of that dye. Watkins is my favorite brand, but there's there's all these different brands that make it that are natural fruits and vegetable extracts in there. And so when you're making something at home, you can buy these natural dyes, keep it on hand. You just need a little bit. Um, and so when you're making it, use those. And now, even if you're buying something that is still that treat, candy or stuff like that, there's other brands now that even stores like Walmart to Whole Foods to Trader Joe's offer options there. So we have so many things now that we can avoid it really easily. So I would say do it. Like if there's, I would, there's there's not a need. I can't think of anything that there's not a relatively easy replacement for.

SPEAKER_03 41:54

That's so important, and especially for our parents of kiddos with food allergies who they already feel just so bad when a kiddo can't can't participate at a birthday party because they have a food allergy and the birthday cake or the cupcakes have their allergen. And so then they typically bring something that is safe for them. Um, but so many times some of these safe foods can have these additives or just the extra junk. And so so many families will try to like make something themselves, and so it is really nice that they have more and more access to things that are not actively potentially bad. Even though those things, I mean, so many times those colorful things are the things marketing to marketed towards our children, you know, and especially like as a busy mom, like I want, you know, I want my kids to have to be happy with what I pack in their lunch. And especially when their friends have all these, you know, whatever. But it's so nice that now there are more options to be creative, to have treats, but do so in a way that is less, you know, what really is the die, right? Like let's do something a little bit more natural. Um, so I want to get back to that with the restriction. And really in our last mo minutes here, talk about what you've seen when families restrict too much, and especially for not evidence-based reasons.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

You know, we see it, we see it with parents, we see it with parents to themselves, um, we see it with I mean, all types who there's so many um, there's so much misinformation or often fear mongering that's out there. And you know, you could look at anything and and and if you're if you're opening, if you're peeling back these layers, you could find a reason to avoid almost everything out there, you know. And so um when

When Food Restrictions Go Too Far

SPEAKER_00 43:55

we start to do that and we start to think, ooh, well, that's bad. Ooh, that's bad. Well, then what do we? Left with. And so if someone is categorically avoiding certain types of foods or entire entire categories of foods or certain ingredients, ask yourself why. And sometimes there might be a legitimate reason, you know, and there may be a diagnosis that goes along with that. There may be, you know, certain symptoms that are experienced when you do have that. But a lot of times these decisions are just made kind of blanket without having a reason behind it. And so we'll have someone that may say, Oh, I cut out dairy and soy and oats, and I feel so much better. Like I don't have the bloating that I had, I don't have the brain fog. And but okay, first of all, like that leaves us really restricted. And when we do this across the board, how do you know which of those things is leaving you feeling better? You know, and so um if you are so I would say a couple of things. If you're if you're concerned about should I limit this particular category, let's say again, dairy, for example, it would be what's the reason? Is that is it a um, you know, and there can be environmental or religious reasons, you know, there's there's a lot of other reasons someone may choose to, but when it comes to the nutritional aspect of it, is there something in this that is is causing a negative and is it actually causing that, you know? So if someone says, Oh, um, you know, I'm a singer and I'm giving up dairy because I don't want to have the mucus production. Well, did you experience that when you had dairy? You know, and so um there can just be a lot of, I guess, misinformation out there. And so before you're making that decision to categorically eliminate entire um spectrums of foods, or go back and and just and look and see why. And if you have found that you're in that space, that wow, I gradually I'm a vegetarian, oh, but I'm also not having soy, I'm also not having gluten, I'm not having these things. If you feel like you have gotten that so restrictive, and then there's might be some elements of that that you can add some of these layers back in and doing it slowly and doing it um strategically so that as you do add in that category of food that maybe you cut out a bunch of different things at once, gradually add back in and see how I am feeling, you know. Um you may have been right on it or you may not. And so it's gonna make life a lot easier. Um navigating things so you're not that person that's I can't have that. Um, and it can just make things uh just kind of like loosen that vice grip a little bit. There's so many restrictions. Let's not put it unnecessarily when we don't need it.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

Right. And I find sometimes patients will say, well, I'm gonna avoid gluten and dairy, and their their diet completely changes to where was it really the gluten in the dairy, or was it that they were eating so much processed, just not good food, and now they are because there is a lot of gluten and there is a lot of dairy in some of those highly processed foods. So now they've they've eliminated that. But then being mindful about, okay, well, let me try incorporating some specific things that contain dairy or that contain gluten, or being mindful about, okay, I know if I eat this cupcake, you know, I might get an upset stomach or whatever the case may be. But know the reason behind why you're starting to avoid something and be very specific about that. And this is a perfect time to plug, talk to your primary care doctor, yes, but also find a registered dietitian to have these conversations with to find what foods could help you feel better. Because I find that people there is something triggering, there is some sort of symptom or constellation of symptoms that is having somebody think, well, maybe X is causing these symptoms. Why? And they're trying to find a solution to that problem. But sometimes they go down a path that is not helping that. And sometimes, you know, look, I'm I'm a physician, I get it. So many times physicians kind of poo-poo on things, especially regarding diet. You know, I I still know of some patient experiences where people don't think gluten sensitivity is a real thing, or in it is a real thing. Like gluten sensitivity is a real thing. And just because we as doctors point in the textbook to the exact pathophysiologic pathway of why something happens doesn't mean that it's not happening. But what it does mean is that we as clinicians need to do a better job of hearing our patients what what is what problem are they trying to solve? And if I can't solve it, who can I get them to to help them solve it in a way that's evidence-based and is to the most evidence that we have and is not going to actively harm the patient? Because when I see people, other clinicians making recommendations of, well, avoid this food group and this food group, especially if it's in some of our younger kids who are at risk of developing a food allergy, if they start strictly avoiding foods or trying to avoid things because of eczema or atopic dermatitis, when we really should be honing in one, really improving that skin barrier, um, that's when I get very, very concerned. And also while I'm on this soapbox, the thought of having families avoiding foods and the mom feels like, well, we have to avoid this because of potential anaphylaxis, and this because I heard on Instagram it's just really unhealthy, and this because this group is saying it's terrible for you. But they really want that, you know, they're at the birthday party, so I'm gonna have this, but not the anaphylaxis thing, but the other things. And then the mom guilt that comes along with it, especially if the kiddo is kind of like behaving like all, you know, goofy like kids can sometimes after they eat a lot of sugar at a birthday party. And then she's like, oh my gosh, these he's misbehaving because I let him eat this. I'm so like mom guilt. That whole cycle is just not fair to that mom. I've never experienced that. I don't know what where this is coming from.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

But you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Like the quality of life issues that uh align directly with avoiding foods that we don't need to avoid, as opposed to, you know, we as clinicians working with families, finding what foods they should avoid for whatever the reason may be. And really, I mean, I think dieticians, I mean, I love, as you know, as I've told you, I love good registered dietitians because having gone to LSU and done that nutrition program, I did the pre-med version, but I was in those classes with those dietitian girls. There was one dude in the class, he was awesome too. So I was wondering. You know, like he was very cool, you know. But like these ladies were like, and the dude, they I mean, they dot their I's, they cross their T's, just like you. They're not saying something because they think it's true. They're gonna say, I'm gonna get back to you on that. Well, you know, going back to the two patients need to see.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

Yes, yes. And going back to the, you know, when we have so many restrictions, I think important for parents to kind of reframe, and whether it's dealing with their kids or dealing with themselves, the reframing it from the what I can't have to reframing it for the positive what we can have. And so something like the natural food colors becomes a really a way that we're putting that that we're we're we can have these, not that we can't have the other. And so any of the things that we talk about, I think as long as we're putting the what we can have, I would implore anyone to remove the phrase I can't have from your language, you know, because um, you know, just finding another way to phrase it because that makes us feel denied, deprived when we can't have.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

Well Yosh Molly, you're awesome. You're awesome. Please come back on the show. I would love to. Thanks so much for tuning in.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Remember, I'm an allergist, but I'm not your allergist. So talk with your allergist about what you learned today. Like, subscribe, share this with your friends, and go to foodallergy in your kiddo.com where you can join our newsletter. God bless you and God bless your family.